Why Subaccounts

Hi friends!

Update on subaccounts: we had to push them back a few weeks due to some more urgent bugs and fixes that have come up. However, as you probably know we have soft limits in place now to avoid debit cards getting declined (we know how embarrassing this can be!) and our banking partner also told us that they have an additional overdraft protection we can implement.

To be fully transparent, because of these other options, our dev team is reconsidering subaccounts. However, we know that they are important to a good number of you, and do want to deliver what we promised. Because we do have soft limits, our dev team was curious: what problems would subaccounts solve for you? And why do you think they are important to have? if you feel very strongly that sub-accounts will significantly improve your experience, we can keep pushing the dev team to move forward!

Cheers,
Jacqui

Honestly I’m confused as to why Fintech insist on multiple account numbers. One acount number + unlimited “sub-envelopes” is so much more flexible not only for the user but also for the dev team. It makes it easier to move money around before and after transactions occur. Really the only benefit I see for separate account numbers is what’s essentially just directing transfers to specific envelopes, but that’s already mitigated by reassigning transactions after they occur.

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For a little more clarity: soft limits, hard limits, overdraft, declined transactions, confusing transfers, etc. simply don’t exist when there’s only one account number.

Envel team, this is literally easier for you! Why make it complicated on yourselves?

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I see way more use in subaccounts than separate accounts. I don’t need my money in separate bank accounts, I just need to organize and budget it. So essentially subaccounts create a true envelope system where all your money is in one place, but separated out to whatever you budget it to.

This makes it easier to link bills and payment accounts (Amazon, target, other shopping) to one number and not need to change it manage a bunch of unnecessary bank account numbers.

The only reason I see to have separate accounts is to separate savings from spending money.

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Hey Yusuf,

Thank you for the feedback! Unfortunately there are a lot of logistics needed to implement subaccounts, but this is great feedback and I will convey to the team!

Best,
Jacqui

Hey Caitlyn,

Thank you, this is excellent feedback! Conveying to our dev team, and let us know if you have any other thoughts about subaccounts.

Best,
Jacqui

It’s actually more work for them to implement sub-accounts than it is to use separate account numbers.

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From an initial standpoint I agree. In order to implement envelopes it’s probably way easier to just have separate account numbers to quickly get the concept off the ground, and likely the reason all the new fintech companies seem to be doing the same thing. The issues arise later where you have to deal with all the challenges that come up as a rusult. I listed a bunch above, but they basically all stem from it being a “bank” problem where Envel is really just the middle man trying to resolve it. I’m also enrolled with One, and just scrolling through these two forums, I always see issues that could be easily resolved if there was just one account number. Simple executed it so well, I can’t get my head around why everyone’s trying to reinvent the wheel.

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Simple’s goals worked beautifully. I was with Simple since their early days and my debit card never declined. I was able to save for a wide variety of goals, large and small. No fees either, not one penny.

By keeping regular goals in the checking account Simple eliminated overdrafts for everyone who was using goals to save. Later Simple improved things by adding protected goals that were stored within a savings account. Now I could have important goals with an extra layer of protection.

All of this with two accounts. Checking and Savings. Simple!

The end result is that Simple made saving a habit. It was great! If envel is not willing to replicate this functionality, it’s a dealbreaker. I’ll search for a bank that can. I expect many other Simple refugees feel the same way.

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That’s very true! Thank you for your note, a lot of folks don’t realize that’s its a major change that takes time for our dev team to implement!

Hey Yusuf,

Thank you for your note! Believe it or not, we were not really aware of Simple and their loyal following until January when they announced their closure, and by then we had already spent years building the basic infrastructure of our app. The latest I’ve heard from our CEO is that subaccounts are still in the plans, its just a question of where they get prioritized compared to other features!

Cheers,
Jacqui

Thanks Jon! As I mentioned above, by the time we were really aware of Simple and their loyal base of users, we had already built the basic infrastructure of our app. I spoke with our CEO yesterday, and he assured me that subaccounts are still in the roadmap, its just a question of where we prioritize them compared to other features!

Best,
Jacqui

Is there a security advantage to having separate accounts? In other words, if someone gets my account information for an account that I keep nearly empty, is the potential loss less than if they get my (single) account information where all my funds are essentially kept?

That is definitely one advantage to separate account numbers. It’s also easier for Envel to program on the back end.

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(this post got long, sorry)
I have been all in with Envel since around May 1st and was with that other bank for years and years. I am beginning to really like and utilize separate bank accounts for some envelopes.

I would rather Envel fix lots of the bugs floating around than release this big subaccount feature.

I have a ticket in for AI split. When I get paid, everything is going in to Bills. There is no split. Fix that, and I don’t have to manually move money to Cash because, As a daily user of Envel, I currently have the weekly cash goal off so that I don’t see ZERO in my home screen when I know I have cash. I manually moved in the extra money I had leftover from Payday to Cash and I did not have to Card link for two weeks. This is what people want. For extra money to be put into Cash. But, for me, this hasn’t been working. I get paid again tomorrow so I’ll see if you fixed this.

In regards to sub-accounts, I don’t think we need it if the AI is doing things correctly. Which to me, means putting any leftover money in Cash.

SO, you have to be clear. The Cash Envelop/ Debit card SHOULD NOT be used for Bills except for the very first transaction since after that we can move the transaction to Bills and Envel should remember this. Does it do this now? Sometimes. And Sometimes it automatically does it. See my hp.com post.

And since you don’t want people to use their Cash Envelop for Bills you really really really need to provide a virtual card for the Bills envelope at least.

AND SIDE NOTE:
Please give us more options for when Bills are due. We need yearly due dates, and quarterly due dates. Most of us are using Goals for yearly bills.

No One should be using Goals for bills.

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Hey there,

Thank you for this feedback, this is awesome! I am making a list of pros and cons to share at our product team meeting. Even if we do move forward with subaccounts, which is very likely at this point, we always want to give users to keep things the way they are.

And in terms of your side note, this has been one of the most common requests recently! I’ve logged it to our dev team but just flagged it again, it seems like an easy fix that would help a lot of our users!

Cheers,
Jacqui

Hey there,

Yes, for sure. Its a good practice to have at least one account (I recommend your Vault) that you NEVER give away the account number.

Cheers,
Jacqui

I can understand using the bills envelope for all bills but I’d still like an automated transfer from one or more of my savings envelopes if needed.

The example I’ll use is the Toll Road Authority. My job takes me all over town and no two days are alike. I might go a week or more without getting on a toll road or I might be using them multiple times per day. When my toll road balance falls below $10, the Toll Road Authority hits my debit card for $40. I have no idea when this is going to take place and I’m driving 80 MPH when it happens. If the transaction fails, they charge me an extra fee. This never happened at Simple, it’s a regular thing here at envel.

At this point, I don’t care if envelopes have separate account numbers or not so long as the functionality is there. If I have a transaction on my debit card and enough money in my unprotected envelopes, the AI should pay it, borrowing from those envelopes. The app should let me know it’s done this and it should put the money back as soon as I make another deposit.

If we’re going to have separate account numbers for every envelope, I’d like to be able to toggle each envelope from un-protected to protected status letting the AI know where it can pull money from if needed.

If someone does not have enough money in unprotected goals to cover a transaction, that transaction should decline.

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There’s a lot of discussion about subaccounts versus separate accounts. But as a user, I don’t care about the technical aspects behind these different approaches. I just want the functionality and end result of a hands-off envelope-based method of money management. What Simple was doing was so perfect. The great thing about their solution was that you didn’t have to THINK about money management or constantly be opening your app to check if all the balances were right and things were being categorized correctly. When I’m not opening Envel three times a day to check if everything is all right because of the complicated workings of the system, then I’ll be happy. A fintech app should be taking away the stress of money management, not adding complexity to it.

It says a lot that after 8 weeks of using Envel I still don’t have confidence that I know where all my money is at and if it’s being shuffled around appropriately.

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They only accept debit cards? Here is where I say envel needs virtual cards if they don’t want to rob Peter to pay Paul.

I circumvented this with privacy.com and PayPal but I shouldn’t have had to.

Or as I mentioned earlier, Envel should remember to pull from your desired folder after the first transaction and after you manually moved it.